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Male Number of posts : 26
Age : 62
Registration date : 2009-05-07

PostSubject: LEAVE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AS IS (AND HERE'S WHY)   November 14th 2009, 11:37

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, One nation under GOD, indivisible with liberty and justice for all”

Some opponents argue that church and state should be kept separate as the Founding Fathers intended AND I concur. Others say the phrase "under God" in the Pledge places "undue coercion" on young children, thus violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Many advocates of removing "under God" point out that the phrase was not written into the original pledge and that the opposition to returning to the original pledge is proof that "under God" is a religious symbol and not merely a secular practice. Allow me to poke some holes into these "arguments":

1. ARGUMENT: I’m pledging allegiance to a “flag”, a symbol or image that is not of God; God said that You shall have no other gods before Me and that You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

REBUTTAL: Definition of allegiance: adherence to something to which one is bound by a pledge or duty; devotion or loyalty to a person, group, or cause.

You are pledging allegiance to a cause (the republic of the USA) which is represented by a flag, NOT to the flag itself. The flag is a symbol of a country that was developed under the Laws of Nature (God’s Law) (The 5000 Year Leap, W. Cleon Skousen) and is therefore not a “carved image” of any other likeness than God (in other words, not in violation of the Second Commandment) nor expressing any allegiance to any other gods before God (Me, as expressed in the First Commandment).
The words “for which it stands” indicates that the flag is standing for (representative) of the republic (the United States of America) of which one is pledging allegiance to and the following phrase (One nation under God) recognizes that the USA is a nation under God’s law (rule).

Realizing that the country was developed under the Laws of Nature thru our Constitution and the First Amendment forbids Congress from making a law which establishes any religion:
If reciting the Pledge is truly a “religious act” in violation of the Establishment Clause, then so is recitation of the Constitution itself, the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, the National Motto or the singing of the National Anthem (U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, Newdon II).


In the Federalist No. 69: Hamilton, there is a comparison of the duties of the President of the USA and the King of Britain. Part of this comparison included the following phrase: “The one [the President] has no spiritual jurisdiction; The other (King of Britain) is the supreme head and Governor of the national church.” The reflection intended here was that the leader of the USA has no legitimate powers to hold any control over spiritual matters, as opposed to the powers which the King of Britain held over spiritual concerns. Here is the intention regarding “separation of church and state” as intended by the Founding Fathers. The initial immigration to the American soil was for religious freedom. People in European countries and in other areas were tired of excessive taxation (which was driving them out of their homes and property) and oppressive religious servitude as controlled by the leader of their countries. Understanding this, the founding fathers called for “separation of church and state” solely for the purpose of not allowing the “state” (our different levels of government; local, state and federal) to direct what religious belief their patronage/citizens must abide by. Hence, the statement in the First Amendment called for freedom of religion via prohibition of any laws by Congress establishing a religion or of any laws prohibiting any exercise of religion.


As recognized by constitutional scholars, such as W. Cleon Skousen (author of the 5000 YEAR LEAP), the principles and values of our nation's Founding Fathers were strongly influenced by the morals and ethics of many contemporaries who believed that man's actions would be judged by God. As argued previously, our Founding Fathers recognized that any government on earth could not be a direct reflection of the highest "government". Thus, man could not create a government that directly imposed religious beliefs (of any interpretation) upon it's constituents because we would then be declaring our government on the same level of judgement as God; hence the separation of church and state. Some of the contemporaries who reflected these ideals upon our Founding Fathers included:

A. John Locke: Natural Law is an eternal rule to all men, legislators as well as others. The rules that legislators make must be comfortable to the will of God (the laws of Nature) "Second Essay Concerning Civil Government"

B. Sir William Blackstone: The will of man’s Creator is the laws of Nature. Hence, this law is superior to any other manmade law of this world. The Laws of Nature is binding over all laws of any country and that any laws of man contrary to God’s Law bears no validity. "Commentaries on the Laws of England"

C. Algernon Sidney: Insisted that there was no divine right for kings to rule over the people. Insisted that the right to rule was within the people and no one could rule over the people without their consent. "Discourses Concerning Government"

Another argument pursued has regarded the so-called "COMPELLED SPEECH ISSUE". Following is how the Supreme Court has dealt with this approach and maintained Constitutional rights.

WEST VIRGINIA BOARD OF EDUCATION VS. BARNETTE (1943): Dealt with the required salute (extended upturned palm while reciting), which members of Jehovah’s Witness said was sacrilegious as applied to the First and Second Commandments; hence this requirement was against the inherited meaning of the First Amendment of the Constitution. Barnette underscored student rights and held that students could not be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Future cases, such as Holloman vs. the Walker Board of Education of 2004 and Lane vs. Owens (Colorado, 2003) further reinforced that no student would be forced into reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

My evaluation as to how these cases, and the precedent set by the Barnette ruling, affect our country's principles is two-fold. I, using my rational side of my brain, must agree with the Constitutional argument used by SCOTUS in these and other previous cases, because I am a Constitutionalist. However, my emotional side recognizes that this "issue" would not even be an item for discussion if not for the Socialist/Progressive movement that has slowly plagued our country for over 100 years. On reflection, our Founding Fathers recognized that this "issue" would surface and our approach would be one example of how our country would forever interpret and use Constitutional principles. And so far, our republic has not stood up to the tests of time.

To wrap up the issue regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, it should simply stand as is. As explained, the flag represents a cause reflecting and following the will of God. Hence, one is still honoring God, placing no other Gods before him and creating no graven images of God. Thru Constitutional principles, no one (including children) can be coerced into reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, or any particular part of it, as granted by the freedom of speech, which in turns does not violate the Establishment Clause. By defining what the flag represents, the argument re: the separation of church and state and the First Amendment is still valid as applied to the Pledge of Allegiance.

I welcome any dissenting arguments.
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