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 After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.

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vg0va3
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PostSubject: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 3rd 2009, 13:18

Many will come away from the Tea Parties across America asking, "Ok, what is next?" I say we do what the colonist did. Declare our sovereignty!

It is not a revolution. It is not secession. It is we citizens saying that we (our State) do not bow to the federal government. Rather, the federal government should bow to us.

This is not a new idea. It is just an idea that is right for the time.

In 1998, Senators Glanton of the Georgia 34th district and Gochenour of the 27th Georgia district proposed SENATE BILL 684. That legislation made clear where the federal government stands under the Constitution.

http://wwwtom20graves.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1997_98/leg/fulltext/sb684.htm

A high level view of there legislation is as follows:

The Georgia General Assembly finds that the federal government does not have the power under the Constitution of the United States of America to withhold from the states the benefits of those taxes by use of federal mandates that are outside the scope of the powers enumerated in the Constitution of the United States of America for the federal government.

In light of the continuing unconstitutional federal mandates that withhold the benefits of the taxes, the state of Georgia hereby reasserts its claim of sovereignty pursuant to the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

The Georgia director of the Office of Treasury and Fiscal Services on a quarterly basis shall disburse the funds to the respective appropriate federal recipient. If the any federal government denies matching funds or grants, the director shall withhold from payment all or part of the quarterly disbursement in an amount equal to the total cumulative outstanding amount of federal sanctions.

The director shall continue to withhold quarterly disbursement until the total cumulative amount withheld from the federal government is equal to the total cumulative outstanding amount of federal sanctions.

Any actions by the federal government against any person in the state of Georgia for compliance with this article shall be considered an action against the state of Georgia, and the state of Georgia shall make an appropriate response to cause the action to cease and desist. The state of Georgia shall take all necessary measures to recover from the federal government the reasonable costs of defending the action.

I just checked with my State Representative and his office knows of nothing regarding this issue moving forward. It is time for this to change.

Do you know your State Representatives? Call them, email them, go and meet with them! You need to demand to know from your LOCAL representatives where they stand on this issue! You need to explain to your LOCAL representatives where you stand on this issue! You need to explain to your LOCAL representatives that you expect them to work to stop the intrusion of the federal government into your state, your homes, and into your lives that is occurring today.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 3rd 2009, 18:13

Many states have something like this in the works.



Be warned however......the last time this idea was really, really pressed with the federal government, it cost the lives of countless Americans in the War Between the States.


I think it's a great idea, but I also think we can force the government to turn back to our Founding Father's ideals without it.....although, again...I would support such a declaration and believe that the Founding Father's always intended the States to have a check of sorts against a large, centralized federal government. If I'm wrong on that, someone set me straight. Smile

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vg0va3
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 3rd 2009, 21:44

I DO NOT ENCOURAGE OR BELIEVE IN SECESSION! I apologize if my post came across in that manner.

I believe too much in our Constitution than to throw away what so many have given before me. In fact, it is that great document that provides for us the roadmap of how we should fight the battle to regain our sovereignty over the federal government.

What I am recommending is that the States that makes up the Union stand up and clarify that the encroachment of the federal government is a violation of the Constitution under the 9th and 10th amendments.

Think of it as the states standing up and reminding everyone that the our Constitution clearly enumerates what are the rights of the federal government and then provides that all other rights not stated belong to the States.

With that said, I am not sure that I agree that you can’t turn back the federal government without addressing this type of measure. Until the states regain control of the purse strings all other suggestions seem to me to be just empty rhetoric.

I have always believed in the golden rule as it relates to government. He who has the gold, make the rules. The federal government has taken the gold from the states and then returns to the states nothing but unfunded mandates or coercive dictates.

For too long people have sat back and waited for someone to step forward and declare, “We are not your subjects,” to the federal government as it slowly erodes our sovereignty over it.

So many citizens become embittered about our system because they do not understand where to turn.

Well, it is now time that we (the state governments) stand up and join the fight that has been raging for so long. We must be willing to stand our ground in the arena that our opponents have chosen…the federal courts. What we have that our opponents do not have is that the Constitution is absolutely on our side.

Let me tell you how I see the actual battle unfolding so that there is no confusion on what I am advocating. This war will unfold without a single bullet being fired or a single life loss because our great Constitution makes is so.

1. The states make the declaration of sovereignty over the federal government. Meaning that all rights not granted to the federal government belong to the states. PLEASE NOTE THAT I DID SAY THE STATES SHOULD SECEED.
2. The federal government then places another unfunded mandate on the states.
3. Under the state statute declaring the sovereignty over the federal government, that unfunded mandate will be paid for via the federal income taxes taken from the citizen of the state and are then placed into a state trust account.
4. The federal government then challenges the action of the states in federal court.
5. A federal court then agrees with the state. The Constitution is upheld and the federal government has a muzzle placed on its snout.

No bullets fired, no lives lost, no states leaving our Union and a federal government that has been shown its true place in our society.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 3rd 2009, 21:52

I didn't misunderstand you. Take it easy, there newbie. You've come in here with your pants on fire, and while I admire your zeal, I think you are "preachin' to the choir" so to speak. Most of us didn't just fall off the liberty train last night...

I believe your first point there is already taken care of in the Constitution.


Otherwise, I can but hope that it plays out as you have suggested - or in some similar fashion.

The one line did make me smile though...." a federal court then agrees with the state(which is proposing something constitutional in nature) "

That, I want to see! Smile


BTW - seccession was on my mind today. If they want a socialist country, and we cannot come to terms, then let us declare them secceded from US. We will take the Constitution, and they can have Hussien Obama's teleprompter. heh.

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vg0va3
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 3rd 2009, 22:12

Kind of like a draft. You get Obama...we get the Constitution?

I didn't all cap to scream. Please don't take it that way. Shocked

I am excited. I have been working on seeing this type of action for some time now. I have to work in DC and have spoken with some of the "conservative" groups up there. They talk, but do nothing except ask for money. I even thought about attending the Tea Party up there, but I need to remember this will be dealt with at home.

I truly want to see some action to stop what is happening. I believe that this is a great opportunity. I believe that we have to come away and engage our state representatives to move this forward.

Again, I just don't want to loose this momentum.

And I haven't been called a newbie since Parris Island. Nice to be thought of that way. Maybe I can loose some of my grey hair. afro
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 4th 2009, 08:55

Secession is to state governments as gun ownership is to individuals. Without it, we have no rights to self protection from a tyrannical federal government.

The US Constitution was entered into as a grant of limited powers, which were held by the people and by the sovereign states, to the federal government. Only those powers enumerated in the Constitution were granted. The history of constitutional jurisprudence is one of ever-expanding federal power, until the federal government claimed virtually plenary powers. Under Clinton and the Gingrich Congress, the federal government expanded about 2% per year. Under Bush, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the government expanded about 6% per year. In the first seventy days of the Obama administration, the federal government has expanded over 35%. It is time the people and the states demand the removal of power from the federal government, through the reduction of taxes. Taxes are the fuel to the fire of federal power.
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PostSubject: My point exactly   April 4th 2009, 12:23

The question then becomes, how?

I hear people planning, meeting and venting. But, I truly would like to hear actual ideas of how to stop the progression of the federal government on our rights. I am an action person (as seen by my empathic pleas to the "choir"). I have heard no other action plans on how to begin placing limits on the federal government. I agree with the concept of Tea Parties, I just hope someone will provide direction from these parties.

I am confident that is what I will come away with at the Gainesville, GA tea party.

For now though, the only idea I have heard is based upon the fact that with the congressional make up today, we will be hard pressed to reduce the tax burden in any significant way.

That is why I suggest we encourage the states to step up and shut down the spigot. We do have more control over our own state legislature.

How do you shut it off? The people from the tea parties reach out to their local politicians. The same politicians that attend meetings attend sporting events and attend the churches with the tea party participants. Those members should be encouraged to create not a statement reminding the federal government of our sovereignty, but a mechanism that will actually keep our federal tax dollars from leaving the state if the federal government has placed a burden on the citizens of the state.

For example, if an unfunded federal mandate is placed on a state, the state needs to be able to actually prevent the federally collected taxes from ever leaving that state. Instead, the taxes collected within our borders should be used to pay for that federal mandate.

Eventually, the federal government will either challenge the method the states device or decide that they cannot dictate every detail of our lives.

I spoke with someone (in the finance industry) yesterday. He was complaining about TARP requirements on his institution. I asked him if he had the number to his local representative. He did not and was not really sure his representatives name. How can anything be done if we complain, but not take action (within the bounds of our Constitution). A process is in place. How do we use it to our advantage?

That is all I am getting at.
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PostSubject: Interesting President Obama's actions   April 4th 2009, 18:29

Obama Wants to Control the Banks
There's a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money
.
By STUART VARNEY
I must be naive. I really thought the administration would welcome the return of bank bailout money. Some $340 million in TARP cash flowed back this week from four small banks in Louisiana, New York, Indiana and California. This isn't much when we routinely talk in trillions, but clearly that money has not been wasted or otherwise sunk down Wall Street's black hole. So why no cheering as the cash comes back?

My answer: The government wants to control the banks, just as it now controls GM and Chrysler, and will surely control the health industry in the not-too-distant future. Keeping them TARP-stuffed is the key to control. And for this intensely political president, mere influence is not enough. The White House wants to tell 'em what to do. Control. Direct. Command.

It is not for nothing that rage has been turned on those wicked financiers. The banks are at the core of the administration's thrust: By managing the money, government can steer the whole economy even more firmly down the left fork in the road.

If the banks are forced to keep TARP cash -- which was often forced on them in the first place -- the Obama team can work its will on the financial system to unprecedented degree. That's what's happening right now.

Here's a true story first reported by my Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano (with the names and some details obscured to prevent retaliation). Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.

Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.

Think about it: If Rick Wagoner can be fired and compact cars can be mandated, why can't a bank with a vault full of TARP money be told where to lend? And since politics drives this administration, why can't special loans and terms be offered to favored constituents, favored industries, or even favored regions? Our prosperity has never been based on the political allocation of credit -- until now.

Which brings me to the Pay for Performance Act, just passed by the House. This is an outstanding example of class warfare. I'm an Englishman. We invented class warfare, and I know it when I see it. This legislation allows the administration to dictate pay for anyone working in any company that takes a dime of TARP money. This is a whip with which to thrash the unpopular bankers, a tool to advance the Obama administration's goal of controlling the financial system.

After 35 years in America, I never thought I would see this. I still can't quite believe we will sit by as this crisis is used to hand control of our economy over to government. But here we are, on the brink. Clearly, I have been naive.

Mr. Varney is a host on the Fox Business Channel.
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PostSubject: i'm the tinfoil QUEEN!! ;O)   April 6th 2009, 08:53

I'm 1oo% convinced that this was all planned...Just call me the crazy conspiracy theorist of the group...It's okay...I can handle it... ::::going to get my tinfoil hat now::::
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PostSubject: i'm the tinfoil QUEEN!! ;O)   April 6th 2009, 19:16

Reynolds or some no name brand???? Remember, we foil heads know that the point must be directed to the east or it isn't really a conspiracy theorist cover.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 6th 2009, 21:12

I'll go along with the "planned" conspiracy. Just another way to make the people more dependent on the gobment. I still think the Amero, or worse yet, some global currency is coming our way.

I'm looking for the straw that breaks the camel's back. Its going to take a lot for the masses though.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 7th 2009, 07:02

the Tea Parties are not the end-all be-all.
they are just the beginning...
They will show that many like-minded Americans CAN and WILL make some noise.
They will be a blueprint off mass opposition, created of the people, by the people and for the people.

Once that plateau is reached, we must never look back, lest set ourselves down a road of ruin.
More and more, I see what is happening in the government as a test of the American spirit.
The government has been hijacked, and allowed to move forward BY our dis-involvement.
We have given up the drivers seat in order to make our lives less complicated. Like the automation of many modern conveniences, the government goes about its business, while we sit in front of the TV. Except we are the ones getting the wash and spin cycle.
The less we have to do with government, the more power it gains.
Collectively, do we have the will to push back with greater or equal strength.
Don't answer that quite yet.

It is our duty to fan the flames, to get people motivated to action. During the revolutionary period, people just like us rallied Americans behind the cause of seperation.
Now is the time for consolidation.
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PostSubject: tin foil hats and calling congressmen   April 7th 2009, 09:08

hey vgOva3
you''d like me. One of my hobbies is calling congressmen and representatives. I was starting to feel though, that it wasn't really doing anything. I literally have the numbers all posted on my fridge. I have a question for you all, when I call, sometimes I tell them my name and addy and sometimes not. Should I call more than once on an issue? Do they know that it's me (a repeat call) or can I call multiple times? Is that effective at all? well...
I like the store brand tin foil. I'm thrifty you know.
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PostSubject: maysunsmiracle: how times to call?   April 7th 2009, 15:22

I am sure I would like you. Anyone willing to call legislators is a friend of mine.

Don’t feel like you are not accomplishing anything. Stay engaged and vocal. Let them know how you feel and that there are other choices. Don’t stop calling. Be polite and be persistent.

A trick is to let them know that you will work against them if they don’t listen. The biggest thing that scares an elected official is an opponent in an election. If they believe your action may create an opponent, then they will listen to you. They are so concerned that you will call radio shows or write editorials about how they are failing. Just someone with no name recognition, no money and no speaking skills on the ballot can terrify politicians.

In fact, I believe that every politician should have an opponent in every election. It makes them listen and stay engaged with their constituents.

I have called the DC office and local office. I have also dropped by their offices in DC. There is nothing like a constituent coming to DC and complaining. You get a great reaction.

The thing to understand is that they mostly have kids (just out of college) manning the phones. So, often your message gets put into a mailing database and no one ever hears your thoughts.

In fact, when Saxby came out for TAFT 1 (the same week that there was a gas shortage in GA due to his joining the gang of 10) I called his office. I explained that I was not voting for Saxby. I explained that I was voting against the Republican for the first time (I voted for the Libertarian). I told him I wanted Saxby to have to go into a runoff so that he would remember where is bread is buttered. As you know, Saxby won the runoff.

The day after the runoff, I stopped by his office and introduced myself, congratulated them on the victory and told them that this election was a warning to stay conservative or to stay home.

They probably thought I was a nut, so they gave me a Coke and a smile. I am sure they wanted to give me more than that, but they were polite.

The 15th is the first step to making them hear your voice. Next thing to do…
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PostSubject: Use The Federalist Papers to respond to the President and Congress   April 7th 2009, 15:55

I urge everyone to read The Constitution and The Federalist Papers and USE THEM.

There is so much in The Federalist Papers that can be used to respond to Congress and to the sitting President.

As mentioned before, www.patriotshop.us has a paperback copy with cross references that really help "put the reasoning of the Founding Fathers into the Constitution."

I found a really neat quote from a Professor that I used in my snail mail letters to Republican Congressional leaders when I mailed them a photo of a tea bag. History does repeat itself! Apparently someone didn't learn this history lesson in school in Indonesia, Hawai'i, California or New York. He obviously didn't learn protocol, either.

"Ironically, the Tea Act had nothing to do with the American colonies but everything to do with rescuing the East India Company from bankruptcy: the result of the legislation was the loss of the American colonies."
Marjie Bloy Ph.D., Senior Research Fellow, National University of Singapore
http://www.victorianweb.org/history/pms/north.html
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 14th 2009, 09:12

WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY

Well you don't mess with Texas. If more states affirm the 10th Amendment (yes, sovereignty is in the constitution), Washington may hear a wake-up call. But I think that it just may take something stronger. Yet when states start asserting their independence, they are only one step from cessession.
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PostSubject: WAKE UP CALL: TEXAS GOV. BACK RESOLUTION AFFIRMING SOVEREIGNTY   April 14th 2009, 10:14

I understand your point, but I don’t think secession is the next step or even needs to be considered.

Our constitution does a wonderful job of laying out how we deal with state sovereignty. The judicial system can and will be our answer.

In fact, this battle has been fought between the states and the federal gov’t for as long as we have had a constitution. This issue was even addressed in the The Federalist.

The states rely on the 10th amendment, but the federal gov’t relies on the commerce clause to subject the states to their will. The power between the state and federal gov’t could be considered elastic. During FDR he stacked the courts to get around the 10th amendment with the commerce clause.

Thankfully, we have seen some limits placed on the commerce clause with U.S. v Lopez.

Another case, Printz v U.S., was an important ruling in support of limits on Federal power and States' Rights.

In fact, “Printz provides a circuit-breaker that might allow local and state officials to refuse to enforce regulations curbing individual rights. Moreover, "[b]y denying the means of commandeering to the federal government, the courts have created an incentive [for Congress] to adopt policies that inspire [rather than demand] compliance, thus preserving a beneficial structural safeguard for individual rights," and "state and local government autonomy can exert pressure on the federal government to moderate its efforts and take care not to offend constitutional rights." (Althouse, Ann, Professor. The Vigor of the Anti-Commandeering Doctrine in Times of Terror, 69 Brook. L. Rev. 1231 (2004).)

What Texas is doing is coming out of the cloest cyclops to educate their citizens that they have a choice. Next step for Texas, place restictions on the unfunded mandates by the federal government.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 19th 2009, 13:08

What is required is a dialog. Lawyers, constitutional scholars and professors should begin appearing on Sunday talk shows debating the merits of asserting sovereignty. Intertwined in those discussions should be questions of secession. When worlds like sovereignty and secession become part of the American political lexicon, that is when a streak of fear runs up this administration. Even anti-discussions are frightening because they present the possibility that it could happen. In the day of instant media, talk is powerful stuff.

Having said that, I am not a supporter of secession but I must admit that Walter O. Williams once made a convincing argument in favor of it. For those that don’t know, Professor Emeritus Williams of George Mason University whom often stands in for Rush is one of America’s leading free-market capitalists. In light of the present economic where the masses have hijacked the market through taxes and entitlement, Williams advocated for one state to secede. In his hypothesis, he said that if a state such as Alabama were to leave the republic and declare itself an independent sovereignty and do away with all present taxation and then reestablish a simple consumption tax (Fair Tax) with a minimal government, businesses would be breaking down the doors to move in. The state would become so wealthy and powerful overnight that neighboring states would beg to annex to the Country of Alabama. Eventually we would have a new country of previously red states.

The final result would be one country built explicitly on individual freedom and capitalism and another country under socialism and left-wing principles. And the real kicker is that capitalism does not have any use for socialism but socialism thieves on the capitalistic elements that still exists in a socialist state I.e. those that still produce. But when the producers are offered an alternative place to prosper, Atlas truly does shrug.
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PostSubject: Nullification   April 19th 2009, 14:11

Isn't there a difference between succession and nullification? It's my understanding nullification simply declares a state has the right to reject any laws, passed by congress, they believe are in opposition to constitutional law.

Is that an option as opposed to succession, and has it ever been done? I know it was mentioned, prior to the Civil War, but was it ever tried?
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 20th 2009, 09:50

DonnaC wrote:
Is that an option as opposed to succession, and has it ever been done? I know it was mentioned, prior to the Civil War, but was it ever tried?


Nullification Crisis, the 1832 confrontation between the United States government and the state of South Carolina over the latter's attempt to nullify a federal law.

South Carolina declared a nullification against the Jackson administration over a tariff in 1832. At one point, the President was authorized to use force against SC to enforce the tariff but backed down and optioned for a weaker tariff. But it was a test of states’ rights.

While I was stationed in Bell Chase, La., the federal government was imposing desegregation on Plaquemines Parish schools. The federal government made threats so the public schools expelled all the military students in a form of nullification.

The problem about nullification is that it is based on states’ rights and states’ rights has ceased to exist shortly after the foundation of the republic and were completely eradicated in the civil war. A state would have to demonstrate a modicum of autonomy before it could hope to stand up against the giant fed, unless the issue is gay marriage or some other liberal cause.

I am more and more reaching the conclusion that we are two Americas that are so different that the idea of true intellectual integration is out of reach. If you don’t believe me, log onto Democratic Underground and read how these people think. (you may want to take a shower afterwards) It is hard to believe we are of the same species and maybe we just aren’t!
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PostSubject: Elephant in the Room   April 20th 2009, 12:12

Thanks, Larry. Obviously, we need to look at all options; and I have heard "nullification" mentioned occasionally.

Is the elephant in the room in all this, the military? Is that why the president is stealthily working towards building a civilian army? If we only knew where the upper echelon of the military stand on this...
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 20th 2009, 20:28

I have been told that the military would side with the President, technically - since he is Commander and Chief.


Someone somewhere was also told that the militia in colonial times would side with the King, I'm sure.

There is a reason that the Veterans of this country were singled out as potential terrorists.....they no longer answer to the C&C and they know how to fight. I saw many vets in the audience at the Tea Party, and I have no doubt that they love the country they served, and detest the direction that it has been going for all these many years.

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PostSubject: Military   April 20th 2009, 20:52

So, do you think the purpose of the Homeland Security thing was to serve as a shot across the bow, to veterans, to remind them, "we're watching you"?

I can understand why the militia might have stood with the King. After all, they had just come from being his subjects... I think our military is a whole different breed. Hey, the military is the ONLY thing the federal government hasn't screwed up yet... You know when those folks stand there and take an oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies foreign and domestic," they mean it, they take it seriously; and they stand by that oath, unlike others who take a similar oath.

One of the things that makes me think they wouldn't turn against their countrymen for this president is the kind of reception he always gets when he visits a military installation. The MSM has tried to make it look like he's been welcomed with open arms, but it was recently revealed how his last trip was staged. I don't think he's wildly popular with the troops...
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 21st 2009, 09:21

[quote="DonnaC"]So, do you think the purpose of the Homeland Security thing was to serve as a shot across the bow, to veterans, to remind them, "we're watching you"?
[quote]

Absolutely! Was it a coincidense that the story broke days before the Tea Parties? No!

The purpose was to intimidate and discourage people from attending.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   April 21st 2009, 09:24

I am retired USN. I would not fear the military turning on the public.

The US military is not like the armed forces of despotic countries where you are nearly isolated from the rest of the community, including your family. Remember, the military have families living out in town like anyone else and they are generally conservative.
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PostSubject: Re: After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.   

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After the Tea Parties, what is next? State Sovereignty...here is how.
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